Discussion:
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
(too old to reply)
ClassWarz
2005-09-11 17:41:35 UTC
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<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>

A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore

To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification
was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show
runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero
experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with
little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die
in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to
conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a
threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and
the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the
facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind
howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America
shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States
fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush,
John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full
day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had
cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this
while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a
trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in
a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR
DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael
Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of
the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those
who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every
bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning,
then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build
so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be
crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to
wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long
enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that
fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't
up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You
did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it.
Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has
to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
***@aol.com
Asmodeus
2005-09-11 18:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
Everytime you leftists bleat, I'm gladder I voted for Bush.
And whining from that pro-terrorist Mike al-Moor, well,
that's icing on the cake.
--
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Pinson's
2005-09-11 18:38:59 UTC
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And Michael's alternative would have been better how? The thing is, there
are things about democrats and republicans alike that are going to piss
people off or have them say "I told you so." That's why I HATE titles. I
know a day will NEVER come when we just vote for the person and not the
party. Oh well~

~Crystal
Post by Asmodeus
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
Everytime you leftists bleat, I'm gladder I voted for Bush.
And whining from that pro-terrorist Mike al-Moor, well,
that's icing on the cake.
--
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Asmodeus
2005-09-11 19:10:33 UTC
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Post by Pinson's
And Michael's alternative would have been better how?
Michael's alternative? What would that have been?
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Mike
2005-09-11 19:14:21 UTC
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On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:10:33 -0500, Asmodeus
Post by Asmodeus
Post by Pinson's
And Michael's alternative would have been better how?
Michael's alternative? What would that have been?
Continued appeasment of course. Just like Clinton did for eight
years.
Asmodeus
2005-09-11 19:47:28 UTC
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Post by Mike
Continued appeasment of course. Just like Clinton did for eight
years.
Ah, I see. Not "the alternative to Michael."
--
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Carl
2005-09-11 20:23:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:10:33 -0500, Asmodeus
Post by Asmodeus
Post by Pinson's
And Michael's alternative would have been better how?
Michael's alternative? What would that have been?
Anyone but Bush you dumb ass. Anybody paying attention knew he was an
ignorant, religious zealot...the coke sniffing, draft dodging,
alcoholic, Yale cheerleader with a history of failed businesses...and
a stooge for big oil, the Saudis.. and the military-industrial
complex.

When the 55 year old Kansan homemaker was asked why she was going to
vote for Bush, she replied "because I know him"..cute! What...her
minister said nice things about him? Hitler all over again and you all
did it to us. The Red States... the ignorant, the greedy, the bigoted
and the bible belt dumb among us.

.........Typical of the 60MM greedy, selfish and ignorant who threw
our country into the arms of the Neocons and the military-industrial
complex, the corporate owned elected .....ready to follow the worst
among us....lock step....without question or oversight.

Contrary to his remarks Bush was never able to put good people around
him...and the proof was there. Was never a uniter and the proof was
there. And you gave him a second term? Shame on you ...shame you all
to hell.

He lied about taking us to war, wrote $4Trillion in hot checks on the
treasury ....mostly to his supporters..and promoted hate radio coast
to coast.

We all knew Bush was going to be supported by the greediest among us,
the bigots, the racists, the intolerant, the Party gullible and the
despicable religious right supporting war while preaching family
values.

We hoped enough good meaning and wise could beat him at the polls.
With
Bush controlling the vote counting we may have ...but we lost and we
now have to travel the world wearing the Canadian flag since no
foreigner respects us and rightly so.


"The majority is rarely correct"..Thomas Jefferson


The Good Guys and the Bad Guys...you decide:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.thenation.com
http://www.democracynow.org
http://www.weeklystandard.com
http://www.independent.org/
http://www.soros.org/
http://www.spectator.org/index.asp
Jafo
2005-09-11 20:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl
Anyone but Bush you dumb ass.
No. Not "anyone". Not if by "anyone" you mean the two assholes
you offered us instead - Gore and Kerry.

--
Jafo
Carl
2005-09-11 20:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jafo
Post by Carl
Anyone but Bush you dumb ass.
No. Not "anyone". Not if by "anyone" you mean the two assholes
you offered us instead - Gore and Kerry.
you really don't see the big picture do you? You really can't relate
to why 35% of the US military, the least greedy, mostly
officers..publicly saying..."this guy has been and will be a disaster
for the country".

What sold you on Bush? Where do you get your information? Did you
listen to all sides of the war arguments before 2003....all the pros
and cons before the Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004????

NO ONE who paid attention voted for Bush...except the greediest of the
bunch, the bigots, the racists, the intolerant and the leaders of the
disingenuous religious right...with the help of course of Prager,
Hannity, Donohue, O'Reilly, the Sinclairs and Scaife. Despicable.

"....(Remember boys...all businessmen are sons of bitches...I know I
am one)..."..Joseph Kennedy Sr to JFK and RFK.

The personal qualities that make business owners successful are the
exact opposite of the qualities needed to govern.

To be a successful business person you need to BELIEVE in yourself,
have a blind faith in your product or service and a stubborn stick to
it attitude.

Wisdom, education, compassion, negotiating skills, knowledge of
history...those governing skills are almost always absent in the
business execs psyche.

Never vote for a businessman...his motivations are rarely in the
interests of the nation.



The Good Guys and the Bad Guys...you decide:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.thenation.com
http://www.democracynow.org
http://www.weeklystandard.com
http://www.independent.org/
http://www.soros.org/
http://www.spectator.org/index.asp
Jafo
2005-09-11 21:01:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl
you really don't see the big picture do you? You really can't
relate to why 35% of the US military, the least greedy, mostly
officers..publicly saying..."this guy has been and will be a
disaster for the country".
Cite?

--
Jafo
Willielmus de Noers
2005-09-11 21:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Verily, on Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:55:24 GMT, in accordance with the
Post by Carl
What sold you on Bush? Where do you get your information? Did you
listen to all sides of the war arguments before 2003....all the pros
and cons before the Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004????
Bush v. Gore

Bush v. Kerry.

Anybody v. Gore

Anybody v. Kerry.

That's all I needed to know.
--
W. de N.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."

-- T. E. Lawrence, The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Asmodeus
2005-09-11 21:52:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Willielmus de Noers
That's all I needed to know.
Whichever candidate would not lick UN ass, would stand up for
the United States of America no matter what, and fight the
terrorists wherever they hide.

That's the only candidate I will vote for.
--
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Asmodeus
2005-09-11 20:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl
Anyone but Bush you dumb ass
Ah, of course, some yellow-bellied appeasenik who would have
invited bin Laden to the White House, given him an award for
being so "oppressed" and had the nation sing kumbayah to
apologize for the poor "disenfranchised" terrorists.
--
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Jafo
2005-09-11 20:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Asmodeus
Post by Carl
Anyone but Bush you dumb ass
Ah, of course, some yellow-bellied appeasenik who would have
invited bin Laden to the White House, given him an award for
being so "oppressed" and had the nation sing kumbayah to
apologize for the poor "disenfranchised" terrorists.
Such a President would be escorted from the Oval Office by Marines,
and it would be a cold day in hell before we'd get to cast a vote
for another President.

--
Jafo
Mike
2005-09-11 19:05:35 UTC
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Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:41:35 -0500
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<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
<snip of loony lib rant>


http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/


Unfairenheit 9/11
The lies of Michael Moore.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, June 21, 2004, at 12:26 PM PT



Moore: Trying to have it three ways

One of the many problems with the American left, and indeed of the
American left, has been its image and self-image as something rather
too solemn, mirthless, herbivorous, dull, monochrome, righteous, and
boring. How many times, in my old days at The Nation magazine, did I
hear wistful and semienvious ruminations? Where was the radical Firing
Line show? Who will be our Rush Limbaugh? I used privately to hope
that the emphasis, if the comrades ever got around to it, would be on
the first of those and not the second. But the meetings themselves
were so mind-numbing and lugubrious that I thought the danger of
success on either front was infinitely slight.

Nonetheless, it seems that an answer to this long-felt need is finally
beginning to emerge. I exempt Al Franken's unintentionally funny Air
America network, to which I gave a couple of interviews in its early
days. There, one could hear the reassuring noise of collapsing scenery
and tripped-over wires and be reminded once again that correct
politics and smooth media presentation are not even distant cousins.
With Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, however, an entirely new note
has been struck. Here we glimpse a possible fusion between the turgid
routines of MoveOn.org and the filmic standards, if not exactly the
filmic skills, of Sergei Eisenstein or Leni Riefenstahl.

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to
promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this
film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that
would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an
exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit
9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as
an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political
cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.


Continue Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In late 2002, almost a year after the al-Qaida assault on American
society, I had an onstage debate with Michael Moore at the Telluride
Film Festival. In the course of this exchange, he stated his view that
Osama Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
This was, he said, the American way. The intervention in Afghanistan,
he maintained, had been at least to that extent unjustified.
Something—I cannot guess what, since we knew as much then as we do
now—has since apparently persuaded Moore that Osama Bin Laden is as
guilty as hell. Indeed, Osama is suddenly so guilty and so
all-powerful that any other discussion of any other topic is a
dangerous "distraction" from the fight against him. I believe that I
understand the convenience of this late conversion.


Recruiters in Michigan

Fahrenheit 9/11 makes the following points about Bin Laden and about
Afghanistan, and makes them in this order:

1) The Bin Laden family (if not exactly Osama himself) had a close if
convoluted business relationship with the Bush family, through the
Carlyle Group.

2) Saudi capital in general is a very large element of foreign
investment in the United States.

3) The Unocal company in Texas had been willing to discuss a gas
pipeline across Afghanistan with the Taliban, as had other vested
interests.

4) The Bush administration sent far too few ground troops to
Afghanistan and thus allowed far too many Taliban and al-Qaida members
to escape.

5) The Afghan government, in supporting the coalition in Iraq, was
purely risible in that its non-army was purely American.

6) The American lives lost in Afghanistan have been wasted. (This I
divine from the fact that this supposedly "antiwar" film is dedicated
ruefully to all those killed there, as well as in Iraq.)

It must be evident to anyone, despite the rapid-fire way in which
Moore's direction eases the audience hastily past the contradictions,
that these discrepant scatter shots do not cohere at any point. Either
the Saudis run U.S. policy (through family ties or overwhelming
economic interest), or they do not. As allies and patrons of the
Taliban regime, they either opposed Bush's removal of it, or they did
not. (They opposed the removal, all right: They wouldn't even let Tony
Blair land his own plane on their soil at the time of the operation.)
Either we sent too many troops, or were wrong to send any at all—the
latter was Moore's view as late as 2002—or we sent too few. If we were
going to make sure no Taliban or al-Qaida forces survived or escaped,
we would have had to be more ruthless than I suspect that Mr. Moore is
really recommending. And these are simply observations on what is "in"
the film. If we turn to the facts that are deliberately left out, we
discover that there is an emerging Afghan army, that the country is
now a joint NATO responsibility and thus under the protection of the
broadest military alliance in history, that it has a new constitution
and is preparing against hellish odds to hold a general election, and
that at least a million and a half of its former refugees have opted
to return. I don't think a pipeline is being constructed yet, not that
Afghanistan couldn't do with a pipeline. But a highway from Kabul to
Kandahar—an insurance against warlordism and a condition of
nation-building—is nearing completion with infinite labor and risk. We
also discover that the parties of the Afghan secular left—like the
parties of the Iraqi secular left—are strongly in favor of the regime
change. But this is not the sort of irony in which Moore chooses to
deal.

He prefers leaden sarcasm to irony and, indeed, may not appreciate the
distinction. In a long and paranoid (and tedious) section at the
opening of the film, he makes heavy innuendoes about the flights that
took members of the Bin Laden family out of the country after Sept.
11. I banged on about this myself at the time and wrote a Nation
column drawing attention to the groveling Larry King interview with
the insufferable Prince Bandar, which Moore excerpts. However, recent
developments have not been kind to our Mike. In the interval between
Moore's triumph at Cannes and the release of the film in the United
States, the 9/11 commission has found nothing to complain of in the
timing or arrangement of the flights. And Richard Clarke, Bush's
former chief of counterterrorism, has come forward to say that he, and
he alone, took the responsibility for authorizing those Saudi
departures. This might not matter so much to the ethos of Fahrenheit
9/11, except that—as you might expect—Clarke is presented throughout
as the brow-furrowed ethical hero of the entire post-9/11 moment. And
it does not seem very likely that, in his open admission about the Bin
Laden family evacuation, Clarke is taking a fall, or a spear in the
chest, for the Bush administration. So, that's another bust for this
windy and bloated cinematic "key to all mythologies."

A film that bases itself on a big lie and a big misrepresentation can
only sustain itself by a dizzying succession of smaller falsehoods,
beefed up by wilder and (if possible) yet more-contradictory claims.
President Bush is accused of taking too many lazy vacations. (What is
that about, by the way? Isn't he supposed to be an unceasing planner
for future aggressive wars?) But the shot of him "relaxing at Camp
David" shows him side by side with Tony Blair. I say "shows," even
though this photograph is on-screen so briefly that if you sneeze or
blink, you won't recognize the other figure. A meeting with the prime
minister of the United Kingdom, or at least with this prime minister,
is not a goof-off.

The president is also captured in a well-worn TV news clip, on a golf
course, making a boilerplate response to a question on terrorism and
then asking the reporters to watch his drive. Well, that's what you
get if you catch the president on a golf course. If Eisenhower had
done this, as he often did, it would have been presented as calm
statesmanship. If Clinton had done it, as he often did, it would have
shown his charm. More interesting is the moment where Bush is shown
frozen on his chair at the infant school in Florida, looking stunned
and useless for seven whole minutes after the news of the second plane
on 9/11. Many are those who say that he should have leaped from his
stool, adopted a Russell Crowe stance, and gone to work. I could even
wish that myself. But if he had done any such thing then (as he did
with his "Let's roll" and "dead or alive" remarks a month later), half
the Michael Moore community would now be calling him a man who went to
war on a hectic, crazed impulse. The other half would be saying what
they already say—that he knew the attack was coming, was using it to
cement himself in power, and couldn't wait to get on with his coup.
This is the line taken by Gore Vidal and by a scandalous recent book
that also revives the charge of FDR's collusion over Pearl Harbor. At
least Moore's film should put the shameful purveyors of that last
theory back in their paranoid box.

But it won't because it encourages their half-baked fantasies in so
many other ways. We are introduced to Iraq, "a sovereign nation." (In
fact, Iraq's "sovereignty" was heavily qualified by international
sanctions, however questionable, which reflected its noncompliance
with important U.N. resolutions.) In this peaceable kingdom, according
to Moore's flabbergasting choice of film shots, children are flying
little kites, shoppers are smiling in the sunshine, and the gentle
rhythms of life are undisturbed. Then—wham! From the night sky come
the terror weapons of American imperialism. Watching the clips Moore
uses, and recalling them well, I can recognize various Saddam palaces
and military and police centers getting the treatment. But these sites
are not identified as such. In fact, I don't think Al Jazeera would,
on a bad day, have transmitted anything so utterly propagandistic. You
would also be led to think that the term "civilian casualty" had not
even been in the Iraqi vocabulary until March 2003. I remember asking
Moore at Telluride if he was or was not a pacifist. He would not give
a straight answer then, and he doesn't now, either. I'll just say that
the "insurgent" side is presented in this film as justifiably
outraged, whereas the 30-year record of Baathist war crimes and
repression and aggression is not mentioned once. (Actually, that's not
quite right. It is briefly mentioned but only, and smarmily, because
of the bad period when Washington preferred Saddam to the likewise
unmentioned Ayatollah Khomeini.)

That this—his pro-American moment—was the worst Moore could possibly
say of Saddam's depravity is further suggested by some astonishing
falsifications. Moore asserts that Iraq under Saddam had never
attacked or killed or even threatened (his words) any American. I
never quite know whether Moore is as ignorant as he looks, or even if
that would be humanly possible. Baghdad was for years the official,
undisguised home address of Abu Nidal, then the most-wanted gangster
in the world, who had been sentenced to death even by the PLO and had
blown up airports in Vienna* and Rome. Baghdad was the safe house for
the man whose "operation" murdered Leon Klinghoffer. Saddam boasted
publicly of his financial sponsorship of suicide bombers in Israel.
(Quite a few Americans of all denominations walk the streets of
Jerusalem.) In 1991, a large number of Western hostages were taken by
the hideous Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and held in terrible conditions
for a long time. After that same invasion was repelled—Saddam having
killed quite a few Americans and Egyptians and Syrians and Brits in
the meantime and having threatened to kill many more—the Iraqi secret
police were caught trying to murder former President Bush during his
visit to Kuwait. Never mind whether his son should take that
personally. (Though why should he not?) Should you and I not resent
any foreign dictatorship that attempts to kill one of our retired
chief executives? (President Clinton certainly took it that way: He
ordered the destruction by cruise missiles of the Baathist "security"
headquarters.) Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the
aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further
genocide in the north and south of the country. In 1993, a certain Mr.
Yasin helped mix the chemicals for the bomb at the World Trade Center
and then skipped to Iraq, where he remained a guest of the state until
the overthrow of Saddam. In 2001, Saddam's regime was the only one in
the region that openly celebrated the attacks on New York and
Washington and described them as just the beginning of a larger
revenge. Its official media regularly spewed out a stream of
anti-Semitic incitement. I think one might describe that as
"threatening," even if one was narrow enough to think that
anti-Semitism only menaces Jews. And it was after, and not before, the
9/11 attacks that Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi moved from Afghanistan to
Baghdad and began to plan his now very open and lethal design for a
holy and ethnic civil war. On Dec. 1, 2003, the New York Times
reported—and the David Kay report had established—that Saddam had been
secretly negotiating with the "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il in a series of
secret meetings in Syria, as late as the spring of 2003, to buy a
North Korean missile system, and missile-production system, right off
the shelf. (This attempt was not uncovered until after the fall of
Baghdad, the coalition's presence having meanwhile put an end to the
negotiations.)

Thus, in spite of the film's loaded bias against the work of the mind,
you can grasp even while watching it that Michael Moore has just said,
in so many words, the one thing that no reflective or informed person
can possibly believe: that Saddam Hussein was no problem. No problem
at all. Now look again at the facts I have cited above. If these
things had been allowed to happen under any other administration, you
can be sure that Moore and others would now glibly be accusing the
president of ignoring, or of having ignored, some fairly unmistakable
"warnings."

The same "let's have it both ways" opportunism infects his treatment
of another very serious subject, namely domestic counterterrorist
policy. From being accused of overlooking too many warnings—not
exactly an original point—the administration is now lavishly taunted
for issuing too many. (Would there not have been "fear" if the
harbingers of 9/11 had been taken seriously?) We are shown some
American civilians who have had absurd encounters with idiotic
"security" staff. (Have you ever met anyone who can't tell such a
story?) Then we are immediately shown underfunded police departments
that don't have the means or the manpower to do any stop-and-search: a
power suddenly demanded by Moore on their behalf that we know by
definition would at least lead to some ridiculous interrogations.
Finally, Moore complains that there isn't enough intrusion and
confiscation at airports and says that it is appalling that every air
traveler is not forcibly relieved of all matches and lighters. (Cue
mood music for sinister influence of Big Tobacco.) So—he wants even
more pocket-rummaging by airport officials? Uh, no, not exactly. But
by this stage, who's counting? Moore is having it three ways and
asserting everything and nothing. Again—simply not serious.

Circling back to where we began, why did Moore's evil Saudis not join
"the Coalition of the Willing"? Why instead did they force the United
States to switch its regional military headquarters to Qatar? If the
Bush family and the al-Saud dynasty live in each other's pockets, as
is alleged in a sort of vulgar sub-Brechtian scene with Arab
headdresses replacing top hats, then how come the most reactionary
regime in the region has been powerless to stop Bush from demolishing
its clone in Kabul and its buffer regime in Baghdad? The Saudis hate,
as they did in 1991, the idea that Iraq's recuperated oil industry
might challenge their near-monopoly. They fear the liberation of the
Shiite Muslims they so despise. To make these elementary points is to
collapse the whole pathetic edifice of the film's "theory." Perhaps
Moore prefers the pro-Saudi Kissinger/Scowcroft plan for the Middle
East, where stability trumps every other consideration and where one
dare not upset the local house of cards, or killing-field of Kurds?
This would be a strange position for a purported radical. Then again,
perhaps he does not take this conservative line because his real pitch
is not to any audience member with a serious interest in foreign
policy. It is to the provincial isolationist.

I have already said that Moore's film has the staunch courage to mock
Bush for his verbal infelicity. Yet it's much, much braver than that.
From Fahrenheit 9/11 you can glean even more astounding and hidden
disclosures, such as the capitalist nature of American society, the
existence of Eisenhower's "military-industrial complex," and the use
of "spin" in the presentation of our politicians. It's high time
someone had the nerve to point this out. There's more. Poor people
often volunteer to join the army, and some of them are duskier than
others. Betcha didn't know that. Back in Flint, Mich., Moore feels on
safe ground. There are no martyred rabbits this time. Instead, it's
the poor and black who shoulder the packs and rifles and march away. I
won't dwell on the fact that black Americans have fought for almost a
century and a half, from insisting on their right to join the U.S.
Army and fight in the Civil War to the right to have a desegregated
Army that set the pace for post-1945 civil rights. I'll merely ask
this: In the film, Moore says loudly and repeatedly that not enough
troops were sent to garrison Afghanistan and Iraq. (This is now a
favorite cleverness of those who were, in the first place, against
sending any soldiers at all.) Well, where does he think those needful
heroes and heroines would have come from? Does he favor a draft—the
most statist and oppressive solution? Does he think that only hapless
and gullible proles sign up for the Marines? Does he think—as he seems
to suggest—that parents can "send" their children, as he stupidly asks
elected members of Congress to do? Would he have abandoned Gettysburg
because the Union allowed civilians to pay proxies to serve in their
place? Would he have supported the antidraft (and very antiblack)
riots against Lincoln in New York? After a point, one realizes that
it's a waste of time asking him questions of this sort. It would be
too much like taking him seriously. He'll just try anything once and
see if it floats or flies or gets a cheer.


Trying to talk congressmen into sending their sons to war

Indeed, Moore's affected and ostentatious concern for black America is
one of the most suspect ingredients of his pitch package. In a recent
interview, he yelled that if the hijacked civilians of 9/11 had been
black, they would have fought back, unlike the stupid and presumably
cowardly white men and women (and children). Never mind for now how
many black passengers were on those planes—we happen to know what
Moore does not care to mention: that Todd Beamer and a few of his
co-passengers, shouting "Let's roll," rammed the hijackers with a
trolley, fought them tooth and nail, and helped bring down a United
Airlines plane, in Pennsylvania, that was speeding toward either the
White House or the Capitol. There are no words for real, impromptu
bravery like that, which helped save our republic from worse than
actually befell. The Pennsylvania drama also reminds one of the
self-evident fact that this war is not fought only "overseas" or in
uniform, but is being brought to our cities. Yet Moore is a silly and
shady man who does not recognize courage of any sort even when he sees
it because he cannot summon it in himself. To him, easy applause, in
front of credulous audiences, is everything.

Moore has announced that he won't even appear on TV shows where he
might face hostile questioning. I notice from the New York Times of
June 20 that he has pompously established a rapid response team, and a
fact-checking staff, and some tough lawyers, to bulwark himself
against attack. He'll sue, Moore says, if anyone insults him or his
pet. Some right-wing hack groups, I gather, are planning to bring
pressure on their local movie theaters to drop the film. How dumb or
thuggish do you have to be in order to counter one form of stupidity
and cowardice with another? By all means go and see this terrible
film, and take your friends, and if the fools in the audience strike
up one cry, in favor of surrender or defeat, feel free to join in the
conversation.

However, I think we can agree that the film is so flat-out phony that
"fact-checking" is beside the point. And as for the scary lawyers—get
a life, or maybe see me in court. But I offer this, to Moore and to
his rapid response rabble. Any time, Michael my boy. Let's redo
Telluride. Any show. Any place. Any platform. Let's see what you're
made of.

Some people soothingly say that one should relax about all this. It's
only a movie. No biggie. It's no worse than the tomfoolery of Oliver
Stone. It's kick-ass entertainment. It might even help get out "the
youth vote." Yeah, well, I have myself written and presented about a
dozen low-budget made-for-TV documentaries, on subjects as various as
Mother Teresa and Bill Clinton and the Cyprus crisis, and I also
helped produce a slightly more polished one on Henry Kissinger that
was shown in movie theaters. So I know, thanks, before you tell me,
that a documentary must have a "POV" or point of view and that it must
also impose a narrative line. But if you leave out absolutely
everything that might give your "narrative" a problem and throw in any
old rubbish that might support it, and you don't even care that one
bit of that rubbish flatly contradicts the next bit, and you give no
chance to those who might differ, then you have betrayed your craft.
If you flatter and fawn upon your potential audience, I might add, you
are patronizing them and insulting them. By the same token, if I write
an article and I quote somebody and for space reasons put in an
ellipsis like this (…), I swear on my children that I am not leaving
out anything that, if quoted in full, would alter the original meaning
or its significance. Those who violate this pact with readers or
viewers are to be despised. At no point does Michael Moore make the
smallest effort to be objective. At no moment does he pass up the
chance of a cheap sneer or a jeer. He pitilessly focuses his camera,
for minutes after he should have turned it off, on a distraught and
bereaved mother whose grief we have already shared. (But then, this is
the guy who thought it so clever and amusing to catch Charlton Heston,
in Bowling for Columbine, at the onset of his senile dementia.) Such
courage.

Perhaps vaguely aware that his movie so completely lacks gravitas,
Moore concludes with a sonorous reading of some words from George
Orwell. The words are taken from 1984 and consist of a third-person
analysis of a hypothetical, endless, and contrived war between three
superpowers. The clear intention, as clumsily excerpted like this
(...) is to suggest that there is no moral distinction between the
United States, the Taliban, and the Baath Party and that the war
against jihad is about nothing. If Moore had studied a bit more, or at
all, he could have read Orwell really saying, and in his own voice,
the following:

The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or
are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to
follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of
intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive
appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for
totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that
one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the
writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do
not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost
entirely against Britain and the United States …

And that's just from Orwell's Notes on Nationalism in May 1945. A
short word of advice: In general, it's highly unwise to quote Orwell
if you are already way out of your depth on the question of moral
equivalence. It's also incautious to remind people of Orwell if you
are engaged in a sophomoric celluloid rewriting of recent history.

If Michael Moore had had his way, Slobodan Milosevic would still be
the big man in a starved and tyrannical Serbia. Bosnia and Kosovo
would have been cleansed and annexed. If Michael Moore had been
listened to, Afghanistan would still be under Taliban rule, and Kuwait
would have remained part of Iraq. And Iraq itself would still be the
personal property of a psychopathic crime family, bargaining covertly
with the slave state of North Korea for WMD. You might hope that a
retrospective awareness of this kind would induce a little modesty. To
the contrary, it is employed to pump air into one of the great sagging
blimps of our sorry, mediocre, celeb-rotten culture. Rock the vote,
indeed.

Correction, June 22, 2004: This piece originally referred to terrorist
attacks by Abu Nidal's group on the Munich and Rome airports. The 1985
attacks occurred at the Rome and Vienna airports. (Return to the
corrected sentence.)


Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His latest book,
Blood, Class and Empire: The Enduring Anglo-American Relationship, is
out in paperback.
Enterprise
2005-09-11 21:07:59 UTC
Permalink
What did Clinton do the the White House for 8 years?

Turned it into Whore House... Lincoln's Bed...

All the bombings overseas... Cole.. Korbar Towers... Somalia....

The Secret Service had to protect him from his Wife quote "keep that bitch
from me"
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification
Post by ClassWarz
was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show
runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero
experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with
little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die
in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to
conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a
threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and
the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the
facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind
howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America
shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States
fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush,
John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full
day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had
cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this
while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a
trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in
a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR
DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael
Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of
the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those
who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every
bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning,
then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build
so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be
crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to
wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long
enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that
fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't
up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You
did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it.
Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has
to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
Pinson's
2005-09-11 22:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Yeah...well I voted for Badnarik. Anyways, well I guess Mr. Likies Michael
Moore has really hit a nerve with everyone. He's an unreliable source and
that's all I'll say about him~
Post by Enterprise
What did Clinton do the the White House for 8 years?
Turned it into Whore House... Lincoln's Bed...
All the bombings overseas... Cole.. Korbar Towers... Somalia....
The Secret Service had to protect him from his Wife quote "keep that bitch
from me"
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it
feel?
Post by ClassWarz
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification
Post by ClassWarz
was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse
show
Post by ClassWarz
runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero
experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man
with
Post by ClassWarz
little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men
die
Post by ClassWarz
in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to
conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for
a
Post by ClassWarz
threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA
and
Post by ClassWarz
the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off
the
Post by ClassWarz
facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind
howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in
America
Post by ClassWarz
shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States
fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr.
Bush,
Post by ClassWarz
John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full
day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had
cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this
while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before
a
Post by ClassWarz
trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes
in
Post by ClassWarz
a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR
DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael
Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of
Post by ClassWarz
the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame
those
Post by ClassWarz
who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every
bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning,
then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and
build
Post by ClassWarz
so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be
crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want
to
Post by ClassWarz
wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone
long
Post by ClassWarz
enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that
fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who
wasn't
Post by ClassWarz
up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job.
You
Post by ClassWarz
did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it.
Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this
has
Post by ClassWarz
to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
Cmdr Buzz Corey
2005-09-11 23:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of
Post by ClassWarz
the world?
Michael the idiot - do you know you look like a pig, act like a pig?
Since I have never been around you I can't say for certain, but I bet
you smell like one as well.
Carl
2005-09-12 13:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cmdr Buzz Corey
Post by ClassWarz
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of
Post by ClassWarz
the world?
Michael the idiot - do you know you look like a pig, act like a pig?
Since I have never been around you I can't say for certain, but I bet
you smell like one as well.
The Cmdr pretty much sums it up doesn't he boys and girls. If you read
the Bush apologists here you know..the ignorant militarist mentality,
the advertising driven psyches .. the same type Bush and Hitler
capitalized on to gain control of their governments.

Irrational bias, prejudice, name calling, no counterpoints, no points,
no logic, .... nobody you want as a neighbor. The stereotypical ugly
American....(which unfortunately, is the ugly Texan. Have you ever
been to Vail or Aspen and skied around those assholes? ....as they
take their families through the singles line? It is not unfair to
label these people...Bush's people... the greediest, bigoted,
narrowminded assholes in America.)


The Good Guys and the Bad Guys...you decide:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.thenation.com
http://www.democracynow.org
http://www.weeklystandard.com
http://www.independent.org/
http://www.soros.org/
http://www.spectator.org/index.asp
Johnnathan
2005-09-11 23:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show
runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero
experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
So, how are we going to get our money back? I think the money
already went to their personal accounts via salary and contracts.
--
Kswck
2005-09-13 20:41:19 UTC
Permalink
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse
show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have
zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man
with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men
die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how
to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off
for a threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA
and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR
BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off
the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The
wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in
America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United
States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr.
Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake.
A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he
had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All
this while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before
a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven
minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This
was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director
Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame
those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today
every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny
morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and
build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will
be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really
want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left
alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the
filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who
wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the
job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans.
Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and
security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
Carl
2005-09-13 23:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
it's a slam dunk...either one. Both would have gone into
Afghanistan...both would have secured our borders better, reduced the
national debt while maintaining maximum economic growth, and neither
would have set the nation up for 500,000 soldiers and $1 Trillion
attempting to establish democracy at the barrel of gun in
Iraq...AND... Saddam Hussein would be dead or in prison , TODAY, as a
result of special ops.....no conjectures...that was the history of the
men...and I vote Democrat out of default.

There is no question that George W Bush was a puppet candidate for the
military industrial complex with fronting of the religious right.
Based on personal and public history...no one in the USA should have
voted for him unless they wanted to join in the Rove-Hughes designed
coalition of the greediest among us, the bigots, the intolerant, the
old party gullible and the disingenuous religious right.

I wish this did not sound so partisan but the assault on the nations
treasury, environment and progressive taxation was a known long before
November 2000, March 2003...November 2004 and that is why
intellectuals around the world were and are mystified .. "how can
60MM (USA citizens) be so stupid".
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse
show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have
zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man
with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men
die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how
to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off
for a threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA
and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR
BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off
the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The
wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in
America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United
States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr.
Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake.
A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he
had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All
this while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before
a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven
minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This
was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director
Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame
those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today
every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny
morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and
build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will
be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really
want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left
alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the
filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who
wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the
job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans.
Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and
security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
The Good Guys and the Bad Guys...you decide:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.thenation.com
http://www.democracynow.org
http://www.weeklystandard.com
http://www.independent.org/
http://www.soros.org/
http://www.spectator.org/index.asp
Jafo
2005-09-14 00:17:41 UTC
Permalink
and that is why intellectuals around the world were and
are mystified ..
"Intellectuals" usually are.
--
Jafo

"No modern nation has ever constructed a foreign policy
acceptable to its intellectuals." - Irving Kristol
ClassWarz
2005-09-14 17:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jafo
and that is why intellectuals around the world were and
are mystified ..
"Intellectuals" usually are.
Ignorant anti-intellectualism will send the US to the poorhouse.

ClassWarz
Post by Jafo
--
Jafo
"No modern nation has ever constructed a foreign policy
acceptable to its intellectuals." - Irving Kristol
Stef
2005-09-14 20:38:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Jafo
and that is why intellectuals around the world were and
are mystified ..
"Intellectuals" usually are.
As humorous as this was, it's sadly true. This is a good thing... you
see, intellectuals are open to question their own beliefs and admit when
they're wrong.
Post by ClassWarz
Ignorant anti-intellectualism will send the US to the poorhouse.
Is there any other kind of anti-intellectualism (if that's a word)?

You can just say "Ignorance will ..." And it will, unfortunately.
But that's not the worst of it. Ignorance has, and will kill many
more people for no real reason, and there are issues fueled by ignorance
that are severely putting us all at risk. I'm not going to elaborate
at this time, because the ignorant would view it as a toy to play with.
But I'll give you a hint: Siberian permafrost.

stef
--
Change your views to respect the truth, not vice-versa.
ClassWarz
2005-09-15 03:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stef
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Jafo
and that is why intellectuals around the world were and
are mystified ..
"Intellectuals" usually are.
As humorous as this was, it's sadly true. This is a good thing... you
see, intellectuals are open to question their own beliefs and admit when
they're wrong.
Post by ClassWarz
Ignorant anti-intellectualism will send the US to the poorhouse.
Is there any other kind of anti-intellectualism (if that's a word)?
It is a word:

"The Renaissance of Anti-Intellectualism"

http://chronicle.com/free/v47/i15/15b00701.htm


From the article:

" George W. Bush deserves a certain credit for resurrecting -- though
probably not intentionally -- the subject of anti-intellectualism."

" the Puritan John Cotton, who wrote in 1642, "The more learned and witty
you bee, the more fit to act for Satan will you bee"; and Baynard R. Hall,
who wrote in 1843 of frontier Indiana: "We always preferred an ignorant bad
man to a talented one, and hence attempts were usually made to ruin the
moral character of a smart candidate; since unhappily smartness and
wickedness were supposed to be generally coupled, and incompetence and
goodness." "

Wikipedia has an interesting entry on anti-intellectualism:

"In the U.S., the Republican Party is typically home to anti-intellectuals"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism
Post by Stef
You can just say "Ignorance will ..." And it will, unfortunately.
But that's not the worst of it. Ignorance has, and will kill many
more people for no real reason, and there are issues fueled by ignorance
that are severely putting us all at risk.
Yes, but the term 'anti-intellectualism' is a tool of rhetoric and good
rhetoric spurns precise and efficient use of the English language in favor
of sheer effect. Ask any salesman.
Post by Stef
I'm not going to elaborate
at this time, because the ignorant would view it as a toy to play with.
But I'll give you a hint: Siberian permafrost.
There are at least two possibilities relating your hint to
anti-intellectualism:

http://www.physorg.com/news5769.html

And,

http://www.jimloy.com/biograph/lysenko.htm


ClassWarz
Post by Stef
stef
--
Change your views to respect the truth, not vice-versa.
ClassWarz
2005-09-14 17:40:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
it's a slam dunk...either one. Both would have gone into
Afghanistan...both would have secured our borders better, reduced the
national debt while maintaining maximum economic growth, and neither
would have set the nation up for 500,000 soldiers and $1 Trillion
attempting to establish democracy at the barrel of gun in
Iraq...AND... Saddam Hussein would be dead or in prison , TODAY, as a
result of special ops.....no conjectures...that was the history of the
men...and I vote Democrat out of default.
There is no question that George W Bush was a puppet candidate for the
military industrial complex with fronting of the religious right.
Yes.

Only when the American electorate gets around to understanding that will it
finally recognize that it has been the target of the most elaborate con job
in history.

ClassWarz
Post by Carl
Based on personal and public history...no one in the USA should have
voted for him unless they wanted to join in the Rove-Hughes designed
coalition of the greediest among us, the bigots, the intolerant, the
old party gullible and the disingenuous religious right.
I wish this did not sound so partisan but the assault on the nations
treasury, environment and progressive taxation was a known long before
November 2000, March 2003...November 2004 and that is why
intellectuals around the world were and are mystified .. "how can
60MM (USA citizens) be so stupid".
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were
attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown
for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start
ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of
the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and
liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye
and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse
show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or
catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse
show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have
zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man
with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men
die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how
to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off
for a threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA
and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR
BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off
the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The
wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in
America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United
States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr.
Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake.
A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he
had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All
this while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before
a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven
minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This
was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director
Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame
those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today
every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny
morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where
one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a
coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the
hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and
build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will
be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really
want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left
alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the
filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who
wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the
job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans.
Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and
security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.thenation.com
http://www.democracynow.org
http://www.weeklystandard.com
http://www.independent.org/
http://www.soros.org/
http://www.spectator.org/index.asp
ClassWarz
2005-09-14 17:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!

Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200 billion
surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.

It's pretty obvious that Gore and Kerry would have done far better than
Bush--Bush is not just bad, he is beyond bad.

ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
<all text below is from today's Michael Moore email - ClassWarz>
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore
On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?
How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we
were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main
qualification was that he ran horse shows?
That's right. Horse shows.
I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all
due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has
shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't
start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of
one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats
and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in
the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by
naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an
emergency or catastrophe.
I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of
Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and
just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.
Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse
show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have
zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?
When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man
with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?
When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men
die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know
how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown
off for a threat that was never there?
Do you really believe that turning over important government services to
private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?
Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for
politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the
federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA
and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR
BAD?
With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the
rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of
thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?
Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by
how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off
the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The
wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in
America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United
States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.
That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr.
Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake.
A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding
he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him.
All this while New Orleans sank under water.
It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his
jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he
flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before
a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven
minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him.
This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA
director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"
My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock
of the world?
And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame
those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today
every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny
morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?
Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural
disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight
Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system
where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't
string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the
mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage
whatsoever.
Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and
build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will
be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really
want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left
alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in
the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go
away?
I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who
wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for
the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans.
Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and
security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?
I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.
Yours,
Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
Kswck
2005-09-15 18:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<snip>
The $200 billion surplus is not a surplus. You do not have a surplus when
you don't pay your bills. Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
Jafo
2005-09-15 18:16:52 UTC
Permalink
You do not have a surplus when you don't pay your bills.
Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
What nation has ever given more to the UN than we have?

--
Jafo
Kswck
2005-09-15 18:27:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jafo
You do not have a surplus when you don't pay your bills.
Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
What nation has ever given more to the UN than we have?
--
Jafo
Not the point. Every person can be rich if they don't pay their bills and
just accumulate money. But ONLY the federal govt can get away with not
paying their bills-we woudl go to jail.

The UN should be abolished anyway for the ineffectiveness they present. But
it does not preclude the US from paying over 900 mill in membership fees.
Jafo
2005-09-15 23:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Jafo wrote...
Post by Jafo
You do not have a surplus when you don't pay your bills.
Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
What nation has ever given more to the UN than we have?
Not the point. Every person can be rich if they don't pay
their bills and just accumulate money. But ONLY the federal
govt can get away with not paying their bills-we woudl go to
jail.
The UN should be abolished anyway for the ineffectiveness
they present. But it does not preclude the US from paying
over 900 mill in membership fees.
Okay, here's the deal. If we said we'd pay it then we'll pay
in full... and then we kick their asses out of the country.
If they still want to have their little club, let 'em meet in
Geneva... or better yet, Paris.

--
Jafo
ClassWarz
2005-09-15 19:14:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<snip>
The $200 billion surplus is not a surplus. You do not have a surplus when
you don't pay your bills. Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
Clinton had a Republican Congress to deal with during his last years in
office; they blocked payments to the UN and Republican Congress controls the
purse, then as now.

What else was not paid that ought to have been? You've still got a ways to
go to prove that your argument that the Bush deficit is caused by paying
bills that Clinton did not pay for is correct.



ClassWarz
Kswck
2005-09-16 10:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<snip>
The $200 billion surplus is not a surplus. You do not have a surplus when
you don't pay your bills. Just the $1billion to the UN comes to mind.
Clinton had a Republican Congress to deal with during his last years in
office; they blocked payments to the UN and Republican Congress controls
the purse, then as now.
What else was not paid that ought to have been? You've still got a ways
to go to prove that your argument that the Bush deficit is caused by
paying bills that Clinton did not pay for is correct.
ClassWarz
Convinient. Now it's the Republicans fault.
Kswck
2005-09-15 18:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<Snip>
Yeah, Clinton managed the nation far better. Tell that to the retirees of
Enron and Worldcom who found it acceptable to lie on their balance sheets
because it looked better. At least in the Bush administration, that's
illegal.
At least Bush isn't getting BJ's from some intern. At least Bush hasn't been
impeached. At least Bush didn't lie to Congress.

So who's next from you libs, that carpet-baggin bitch Hillary?
ClassWarz
2005-09-15 19:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<Snip>
Yeah, Clinton managed the nation far better. Tell that to the retirees of
Enron and Worldcom who found it acceptable to lie on their balance sheets
because it looked better.
Enron's Ken Lay is a Bush crony. Corporations like Enron and Worldcom
contribute mightily to Republican coffers and much less, but not
insubstantial, amounts to the Democrats. The Republican agenda is a
corporatist agenda, and is not, from an ideological perspective, a purely
conservative one. So, are you a Green?
Post by Kswck
At least in the Bush administration, that's illegal.
At least Bush isn't getting BJ's from some intern. At least Bush hasn't
been impeached. At least Bush didn't lie to Congress.
Bush lied to the world about matters far more serious than an extramarital
affair. How many died due to Clinton's affair?

Bush ought to be impeached for his lies on Iraq alone.
Post by Kswck
So who's next from you libs, that carpet-baggin bitch Hillary?
Sounds like right-wing misogyny to me. Typical.


ClassWarz
Kswck
2005-09-16 10:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
Post by ClassWarz
Post by Kswck
And who would have done better in the White House? Gore?
Kerry?
Way better, way way way better!
Clinton managed the nation far better than Bush has -- Clinton: $200
billion surplus, Bush: $450 billion deficit.
<Snip>
Yeah, Clinton managed the nation far better. Tell that to the retirees of
Enron and Worldcom who found it acceptable to lie on their balance sheets
because it looked better.
Enron's Ken Lay is a Bush crony. Corporations like Enron and Worldcom
contribute mightily to Republican coffers and much less, but not
insubstantial, amounts to the Democrats. The Republican agenda is a
corporatist agenda, and is not, from an ideological perspective, a purely
conservative one. So, are you a Green?
Post by Kswck
At least in the Bush administration, that's illegal.
At least Bush isn't getting BJ's from some intern. At least Bush hasn't
been impeached. At least Bush didn't lie to Congress.
Bush lied to the world about matters far more serious than an extramarital
affair. How many died due to Clinton's affair?
Bush ought to be impeached for his lies on Iraq alone.
Post by Kswck
So who's next from you libs, that carpet-baggin bitch Hillary?
Sounds like right-wing misogyny to me. Typical.
When you are exposed to her, then you can comment. Otherwise, you are
misinformed.
Post by ClassWarz
ClassWarz
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